As Long as Untapped Each Player Draws a Card
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Permanents NEED To Be Untapped Before Drawing, Right?
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As Long as Untapped Each Player Draws a Card
Source: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/magic-rulings-archives/278499-permanents-need-to-be-untapped-before-drawing
#1 Apr 9, 2010
Someone at FNM told me that players can't be called out on forgetting to untap their permanents (creatures, lands, artifacts, etc.) before their draw phase. He said that they can leave everything tapped and can untap at any time during their turn, even during their combat phase! I didn't buy it for a second, but I let it go because he seemed to be convincing others. Was he right? I've never played that way.
Also, can a player cast a creature AFTER their attack phase but before the other player's turn, if they have the land available to do so? Is this something that can be done after combat phase?
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#2 Apr 9, 2010
He was completely wrong. Your untap step is the very first step of your turn; it cannot be delayed in any way, shape or form to some later point in the turn.
Yes. There are two main phases in each turn--one before the combat phase, and one after the combat phase. Creature spells (and any other kind of spell) may be cast during said second main phase, just like they can in the precombat main phase.
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#3 Apr 9, 2010
the second part of your question is answerd with the post combat main phase
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#4 Apr 9, 2010
Back when I started playing (94) the rule was "Untap, Upkeep, Draw". After that you went on to your spellcasting, attacking, etc. I don't know what the official ruling is on this, but I am still of the old school thought that if someone forgets to untap their stuff and then draws their card... They just screwed themself over!
To answer your second question, yes you can play spells after your attack. That is called the "second main phase".
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#5 Apr 9, 2010
By the rules untapping has to happen during the untap step, just like drawing has to happen during the draw step (unless you're using another card like Divination or Twitch). I wouldn't call foul play if someone drew and then untapped their creatures/lands in a relatively casual game. Not a big deal. But if they left everything tapped until their attack phase that would be a different story.
And yes, you get two main phases, one prior to attack and one post-attack, so you can play creatures, etc. etc. in either phase as long as you have mana available.
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#6 Apr 9, 2010
Thanks, bud. I'm going to print these rules out. We just got sanctioned and this kid is our judge.
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" They serve to keep malevolence under control. As long as Angels rule the skies, there will always be peace among the Plains ."
Thanks to Piet for this awesome banner.
#7 Apr 9, 2010
The untap step must be done, you have to remind that player as well to untap all their stuff.
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#8 Apr 10, 2010
If he is the "Judge", I would suggest that you send him to this: Rules. If he doesn't understand the structure of a turn, then he needs to read the Basic Rulebook.
After that, although it isn't necessary, he should try to become an official Judge through Wizards: Judge Certification.
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#9 Apr 10, 2010
You can't forget to untap, though -- not doing so creates in illegal game state, doesn't it?
So even if the player does forget to untap, wouldn't you technically have to rewind the game state?
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#11 Apr 10, 2010
Well, the game state is legal (since there's nothing inherently illegal about a player's lands being in a tapped status), but the game state is not how it should be if all rules had been followed. Untapping is mandatory, so you can't normally just choose not to untap your lands.
That depends on how much has happened since the missed untap. I imagine that in most cases not a lot will have happened since the missed untap step, so in most cases the game will be rewound to the missed untap. (In addition to penalties for Game Rule Violation for the active player, and Failure to Maintain Game State for the nonactive player if he didn't point out the mistake right away.)
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#12 Apr 10, 2010
I would like to point out that you can infact wait until you're declaring attackers before untapping but it is not an event that should occur and if it happens frequently may be worthy of a warning.
You see, as far as the game is concerned, permanents untap without the player doing anything. It is not an optional event and must happen during the untap step.
As with other non-optional events, failure to comply is a failure to maintain game state and so must be rectified immediately upon noticing.
In other words, you cannot claim a player failed to untap as that is not a mistake the game allows them to make but if you see this happening often and it appears to be intentional, call a judge to complain.
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#13 Apr 10, 2010
This is using "can" in the sense of "can't, but you might get away with it occasionally", and it confuses the issue. According to the game rules, you can't wait until declaring attackers to untap.
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#14 Apr 10, 2010
Don't word things like that. A TON of players read these boards, and all this does is confuse them. The order of a turn is: "UNTAP, upkeep, draw, etc." You untap right at the beginning of your turn, and teaching ALL players to do that is what we should be doing. Not using subtle wording to muddle the issue.
Short answer - Untap, Upkeep, Draw. Mandatory Actions, in that order.
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#15 Apr 10, 2010
At higher REL levels, if a players leaves his lands tapped and draws his cards and looks down and goes "oh oops" and untaps his stuff, could he be forced to leave them tapped for the assumption he was floating mana during his draw step for some weird reason?
Kind of like a cheap way to use player mistakes against them. I pretty much doubt that that would be the case, but you never know. Kind of like when you have a may effect and they cast another spell and then they realize they forgot the may effect and try to do it and you're like "sorry bro".
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#16 Apr 10, 2010
No, for the last time; you can't "get" someone for forgetting to untap before they draw, much in the same way as you can't "get" someone for forgetting a Soul Warden trigger, or any other kind of mandatory action. You also have a responsibility to remind the other player to untap (or immediately call a judge), to maintain a proper game state.
EDIT: You said it yourself, the actions you were referring to were "may;" these actions are "must."
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#17 Apr 10, 2010
No. Leaving a land tapped when it should be untapped is not an accepted shortcut for having untapped and retapped it, and no such assumption should be made at any REL.
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#18 Apr 10, 2010
Sorry. The point I was trying to get across is that if you forget to untap until later on in the turn you can untap then. The rules, however, do not allow you to forget at all.
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#19 Apr 10, 2010
All right, I think this thread has gone as far as it needs to go.
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Please use card tags when you're asking a question about specific cards: [c]Serra Angel[/c] -> Serra Angel.